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June 19, 2007

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jered

Funny you should mention this. Another blog I read of a local pastor is delving into the gospel of grace right now. We attend a different local church, but I get a lot out of Bill's writings.

The main page has three recent entries that delve into this. One of them is quite long and a couple of them have spurned extensive feedback and dialog between Bill and other readers. I think you'll find it fascinating at the very least.

In short, I don't think there are any prerequisites.

Mike

I didn't know you cut your hair.

Heidi

the interesting thing is when we present the gospel only after the lament of sin, it is strangely similar to advertising strategies that offer products as remedies for ailments we didn't realize existed until we saw the commercial. And I wonder if we try to use sin in the same way-- it becomes about validating why I believe what I believe when those we are "witnessing" to don't think they need our product to make them any happier. I like the idea that it isn't so much about fixing all of our problems but about seeking out the truth of the way we were created to live. I'm okay with talking to people about that.

emma

This is so timely... I've actually been having similar conversations with a couple of friends recently, sparked off by a local church here producing an inflamatory and highly biased leaflet against Rob Bell. We pretty much boiled it down to this: traditional churches in Ireland present the Gospel (their gospel?) as "hellfire, damnation, seperation" which eventually leads to "escape from this, believe in Jesus, go to heaven"; whereas Bell and many others present the Gospel (more accurately, I believe) as "the earth is not as it should be. its supposed to be a place of beauty and hope and love, like heaven, but the earth is broken... therefore if theres a heaven there must be a hell... but thats not the point, the point is joining Jesus as we seek better lives not only for ourselves but for our whole world."

Mike

Emma, about the leaflet... isn't it sad that the very people who claim to follow Jesus can often end up acting so unlike Jesus?

Anyway... I think you've tapped into something. The "traditional" perspective can often focus solely on individual escape from this world, whereas what I think Rob and others like N.T. Wright are saying is that salvation is not merely individual, but has a cosmic dimension. So the question is this: If we present the gospel as individual escape, do we not in fact limit the very gospel we claim to proclaim?

jon

i think what you have here is brilliant. it reminds me of what peter said. speaking to wives with unbeliving husbands he says, "live such pure and reverent lives that without having to say anything, your husbands may be won over to the Lord." it seems to me that littered throughout the New testament is this underlying theme of people living so differently, that lives are changed (not because they are told they're sinners but because they can see their own depravity in the love and dedication of those who follow Jesus)

emma

Mike, I think we do limit the gospel if we merely proclaim it in part - in fact something this leaflet used against Bell and his type was their lack of presentation on the "full Gospel"... something I feel we are all guilty of at times, and no less the producers of the leaflet in failing to present Jesus hope of salvation for everything and everyone in the earth.

I think Jon's got something too - it reminds of the saying by St. Francis of Assisi, "preach the Gospel at all times, and if necessary use words." Sometimes I fear we have lost the radicalness that it really should be to follow Jesus - this Jesus way is so counter-cultural we can't help but be different if we are really chasing after Him.

Friar_Tuck

This is the primary strategy of the Ray Comfort/Kirk Cameron evangelistic strategy. They base it on Romans. You have to be deeply aware of your sinfulness before you are ready to come to faith.

I am not sure I buy that.

I think a lot of the thoughts of Bonhoeffer in his prison letters, and the need to bring Christ in his weakness to speak to modern man in his strength. I think even in the most sucessful life without Christ, and maybe even more then, there is a sense of lack, of hope for something more, of wondering "is this really it?"

Bill Giovannetti

Hi Mike,
First time reading your blog. I really like this discussion. I read some time ago a sermon from Spurgeon--I can't find it now--but I'll keep on lookinng. Much to my surprise, he was arguing AGAINST the idea that you had to have self-loathing, or even a deep conviction of sin, in order to respond to Jesus. Just come. "Just as I am" still works for me.
Bill @ www.maxgrace.com

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